<timbl> I had kinda omitted to think of the meeting I'm afraid, no agenda.
<timbl> We could discuss I suppose papers, and changes.
<eikeon> dwood and I chatted about maybe adding a quick demo item to one of the cwm/paw meeting agendas if that works... since we've been the only two on the paw/demo calls.
<timbl> Ok, we'll do a quick ad-hoc agenda
<scribe> Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2000/10/swap/doc/plans.html v 1.75
DK: getting rdflib into release
state for use elsewhere in the lab...
... not much progress on Term APIS
VK: spent the week mostly doing
pychinko hacking. log:conclusion and log:conjunction added
minimally working version
... I do log:conclusion with a sub-rete.
<vlatko> http://svn.mindswap.org/pychinko/pychinko
VK: worked OK because the rete is a 1st class object. [yay! no globals!]
<DanC_> r5336 | kolovski | 2005-11-21 21:19:57 -0600 (Mon, 21 Nov 2005) | 2 lines
<DanC_> -note this is a minimally working version
<vlatko> yes
TimBL: haven't done anything directly relevant, but did think about the term API in javascript...
DanC: I was at XML2005 all last week
<DanC_> RDF Calendar, GRDDL, Microformats, and all that at XML2005 in Atlanta
DanC: while working on figures for slides, had to use an old version of cwm cuz -bySubject isn't tested and, of course, rotted
<DanC_> cwm --bySubject breaks bnode refs Dan Connolly (Friday, 11 November)
timbl: hmm... yeah... not all the -flags are tested well
<timbl> created swap/test/output directory for such tests
VK: the rete is efficient because
we use dictionaries: pred/obj/sub
... matching formulas is tricky [not sure I'm following, but
clearly timbl is]
TimBL: ... unify ...
... compare two formulas...
VK: I tried that, and it works great with no variables, but with variables...
<vlatko> fails:
<vlatko> {{ :a :b :c} ?y {:a :b ?x}} log:implies {<test> a <SUCCESS> }.
<vlatko> {:a :b :c} :h {:a :b :c}.
<vlatko> succeeds:
<vlatko> {{ :a :b :c} :h {:a :b :c}} log:implies {<test> a <SUCCESS> }.
<vlatko> {:a :b :c} :h {:a :b :c}.
TimBL: take care with scoping of ?foo syntax
DC: you might try just explicitly quantifying them at the top level
<timbl> <test> a <SUCCESS> .
<timbl> @forAll :x, :y.
<timbl> {{ :a :b :c} :y {:a :b :x}} => {<test> a <SUCCESS> }.
<timbl> {:a :b :c} :h {:a :b :c}.
<vlatko> @forAll :x,:y.
<vlatko> {{ :a :b :c} :y {:a :b :x}} log:implies {<test> a <SUCCESS> }.
<vlatko> {:a :b :c} :h {:a :b :c}.
@forall ?y. {@forall ?x. { :a :b :c} ?y {:a :b ?x}} log:implies {<test> a <SUCCESS> }
DC: vlad, do you handle scopes other than global yet?
VK: dunno.. is there a test?
TimBL: rules13, I think...
TimBL: played with the term API
in javascript...
... worked with Jim Ley's RDF parser...
<timbl> http://www.w3.org/2005/10/ajaw/rdf/parser.js
<timbl> http://www.w3.org/2005/10/ajaw/rdf/term.js
<timbl> http://www.w3.org/2005/10/ajaw/tab.html
[there's an eulermoz... I wonder how it relates]
<timbl> http://www.w3.org/2005/10/ajaw/rdf/match.js
http://sourceforge.net/projects/eulermoz
hm... empty
<timbl> http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/*checkout*/eulermoz/eulermoz/emoz.html?rev=1.6
<timbl> http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/eulermoz/eulermoz/
<timbl> http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/eulermoz/eulermoz/js/parser/n3/
"We please to announce we commit N3 scanner first version."
<timbl> Age: 14 months
<timbl> http://www.nongnu.org/samizdat/
DanC: I almost put GRDDL support in cwm
TimBL: depends on XSLT.... hmm...
DanC: 4suite might have one, but I'd use libxslt, with a --grddl or --xslt flag, ala the way crypto stuff crosses the pure-python barrier
<DanC_> RFE: GRDDL support 09 Jun 2004
<timbl> We are still I think at the point that the cwm --why doesn't work on DanC's machine, doe son Vlad's and Tim's
<DanC_> yeah; I haven't summonned the energy to chase after that heisenbug
DK: wondering what to do next... we're using a fake proof so far..
DC: since the proof check doesn't work on my desk, maybe you could do the next step? I sent mail about where I was stuck:
Subject: proxy stuck: trouble figuring out cwm proof gen API
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 17:32:12 -0500
Subject: Re: proxy stuck: trouble figuring out cwm proof gen API
Date: Thu, 03 Nov 2005 16:57:58 -0600
Committed revision 160.
http://www.policyawareweb.org/2005/demo/pfproxy.py
TimBL: I'd like to track that down, using more and more debug output
<DanC_> (I'd rather turn all the debug output into unit tests... hmm...)
<timbl> if it is a particular combination of features which breaks then unit tests won't find it
DK: ok, I see the mail; I think I can take the next step... I'm not sure how to check the proof...
<vlatko> for checking:
<vlatko> python ~/w3ccvs/WWW/2000/10/swap/check.py -v50 -c40 ,pf.n3 2>,pfcheck
<vlatko> generating a proof:
<vlatko> python pfproxy.py --test-rein 2>,errs >,pf.n3
VK: I've run the checking stuff. it works for me
<timbl> check -v50 < ,pf.n3 > result.n3
DC: vlad, are you working on using the rete inside cwm?
VK: thinking about it...
... was thinking about static analysis to see if rete can
handle it
DC: how about just a --use-rete flag and crap out of it won't work?
VK: ok, that's even easier
TBL: I think yosi's latest work starts with a KB, looks for rules, and builds a rete
DK: yeah
VK: and then put it back?
TBL: i think conclusions from the rete are handled just like cwm: either back in the KB or in a new formula [?]
VK: maybe I can contact yosi about it
DK: anything on the term api/interface?
<DanC_> re term API, http://www.w3.org/2000/10/swap/rdf2dot.py v 1.5 2005/11/17 15:42:10
<DanC_> cwm API notes:
<DanC_> Symbol.uriref() vs uriref2()... why not an optional arg?
<DanC_> http://www.w3.org/2000/10/swap/pim/toIcal.py toIcal.py -- convert RDF to iCalendar syntax
DK: I've been tracking http://esw.w3.org/topic/WebDataInterfaceDesign
DC: ok, I can scribble some article ideas there
<eikeon> We should be able to converge on API enough to interop on scripts such as rdf2dot.py -- can start by comparing the differences in the API the scripts expose.
regular schedule calls for 7 Dec
DanC on a plane back from TAG meeting about that the time
TimBL: I'm ok for 7 Dec 14:30ET
<vlatko> I'm ok, too
VK: I think I'm available, though
end-of-semester foo creates risks
... 27 Dec I take holiday
<vlatko> till 17th Jan.,
<vlatko> .
ADJOURN.